Detecting Lies

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Detecting Lies

Postby cactuspete » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:32 am

Penn & Teller: Bullshit! - Season 7 Episode 5 - Lie Detectors
People who watch too many television Detective Shows probably believe the BS, but anyone with a little bit of a science background sees right through the scam!
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Re: Detecting Lies

Postby cactuspete » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:34 am

BTW, here's the link to the thread on the old forum that was called LIES THE GOVERNMENT TELLS in which the myth of lie detection and the polygraph machine was discussed:
LINK: http://www.blackturtle.us/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=80&sid=6065296722d0320b15f12cf35cde0645
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Re: Detecting Lies

Postby surfsteve » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:06 pm

I downloaded the whole series of Penn and Teller but only watched the first episode and really didn't care for it. I can't wait to watch that episode though. Have you ever watched the series “Lie To Me”? The first two seasons are supposedly relatively accurate and deal with the science but then it goes off track and makes a ploy for ratings. There is also a series called HOUSE OF LIES. I've only watched the first episode so far but it totally blew me away. It is a Showtime series based on the book, “House of Lies: How Management Consultants Steal Your Watch and Then Tell You the Time “ and it is one of the funniest shows I've ever watched.
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Re: Detecting Lies

Postby surfsteve » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:31 am

You convinced me. Popular Mechanics are the ones that put out all that crap trying to say 9-11 commission's fairy tale version was correct. If there is any science at all about it then it's probably being used to help politicians lie. Not to detect when they are doing it.
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Re: Detecting Lies

Postby a2z » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:17 pm

surfsteve wrote:You convinced me. Popular Mechanics are the ones that put out all that crap trying to say 9-11 commission's fairy tale version was correct. If there is any science at all about it then it's probably being used to help politicians lie. Not to detect when they are doing it.

Popular Mechanics can speak with some authority regarding the collapse of a building after it was hit by a jetliner. But when it comes to detecting lies, that's way outside their area of expertise. Sure they can include an article written by a supposed expert (or shill for those trying to make a buck off the lie-detecting scam), but one has to wonder why would they include an article on a topic which isn't relevant to mechanics? Could it be that no reputable journal relevant to the topic would accept the editorial? It seems like an insult to those who read and subscribe to Popular Mechanics to include an article like that. It would be like subscribing to Gardening Today and seeing an article about ____(insert a topic that is totally and completely irrelevant to gardening)_____.
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Re: Detecting Lies

Postby wildrose » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:27 am

How to Tell if Someone's Lying
Concise explanation as to why it's next to impossible to tell if someone is lying. Polygraph machines are just bunk based on junk science and people who administer those tests are either fools who believe the BS fed to them by the companies that make the machines, or else they are quite simply LIARS!!!!
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Re: Detecting Lies

Postby surfsteve » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:27 am

The only way I can tell if someone is lying is to catch them with video or something fool proof. But there is supposedly a real science behind deception.

The (Real!) Science Behind Fox's Lie to Me

Read more: The Real Science Behind Lie to Me - Lie to Me Episodes - Popular Mechanics
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Re: Detecting Lies

Postby cactuspete » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:27 am

surfsteve wrote:The only way I can tell if someone is lying is to catch them with video or something fool proof. But there is supposedly a real science behind deception.

The (Real!) Science Behind Fox's Lie to Me

Read more: The Real Science Behind Lie to Me - Lie to Me Episodes - Popular Mechanics

NOPE! That show is just the same old BS dressed up slightly differently. Micro-expressions have been debunked pretty soundly as nothing but junk science. Just because the FBI happens to consider this useful doesn't mean much, they still use the polygraph! These are just tools of intimidation which are effectively used against ignorant people who have no science background. The way the ploy works is that a supposed expert claims that he knows that the suspect is lying (either based on polygraph results or by studying micro-expressions caught on video tape) and the suspect "realizes" that he/she won't succeed in deceiving these "savvy" detectives and so the suspect confesses. There's a reason that micro-expressions and polygraphs can't be used in a court of law. They have been shown (rather mercilessly) to be complete and utter BS. Shows like the one you're talking about are just propaganda encouraged (funded) by companies that profit from this sort of thing. The fact that Popular Mechanics actually ran an editorial professing that micro-expressions were of value speaks rather poorly of the author of the editorial and of the magazine.
At the show's center is Cal Lightman (Tim Roth), a scientist whose expertise is detecting and interpreting "micro" expressions—involuntary facial expressions that last just a moment—a useful skill if you want to want to figure out whether someone's lying, and why. Lightman runs a consulting firm from which he and three supporting characters traverse the Washington, D.C., area solving mysteries for the police, FBI and pretty much any other client who needs a lie detector.

It is completely inaccurate to refer to Cal Lightman (Tim Roth) as a scientist since real scientists would never waste time on something as poorly defined and subjective as micro-expressions. While this Cal Lightman (Tim Roth) might pretend to be a scientist and gullible members of the general public might buy into the show, anyone capable of generating alternate hypotheses sees through the BS pretty quickly! This Cal Lightman (Tim Roth) is either a moron who really believes the BS he's pedaling or he's a liar (as pointed out earlier by another poster in regards to the polygraph).
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Re: Detecting Lies

Postby pcslim » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:18 am

The Truth About the Polygraph (According to the NSA) :smack:
This video was posted to the old thread and it does a pretty good job of debunking the value of the polygraph. Polygraphy is junk science and deep down most people realize this, but they get pressured into cooperating with the fake experts who administer these tests and the powers that be that insist on such cooperation. It's a pathetically stupid waste of time, but bureaucracies have no problem wasting time on useless activities!
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Re: Detecting Lies

Postby BallaratBob » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:32 am

Michael Shermer Tests the Polygraph and Lie Detection Part 1
Polygraphs have been shown to be accurate slightly more than 50% of the time. (That means that half the time it's just plain straight out wrong! You could flip a coin and get equally reliable results!) Yet polygraph examiners usually claim an accuracy rate of 95%. I guess that just goes to show who the real liars are!!!
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