TJUSD Board Meeting: August 09, 2018

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Re: TJUSD Board Meeting: August 09, 2018

Postby wildrose » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:06 pm

blackturtle.us: I feel your pain! :laugh:
As a retired teacher I endured many pointless training sessions! There are so many educational fads. It often boggles the mind, but when it comes to educational dollars, there are many charlatans doing whatever they can to get their hands on them!
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Re: TJUSD Board Meeting: August 09, 2018

Postby recluse » Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:47 pm

IQ vs. Emotional Quotient - Fact or Fad?
This speaker treats emotional intelligence as if it's real, but admits to the extent that it's real it has very little predictive value when it comes to job performance. Also she indicates that the concept was developed in reaction to a book called The Bell Curve. So, it seems that "emotional intelligence" is more of a political tool to help people who were offended by The Bell Curve to get over their hurt feewings!
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/298577/hurting-your-feewings
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Re: TJUSD Board Meeting: August 09, 2018

Postby cactuspete » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:34 am

Daniel Goleman Introduces Emotional Intelligence
Clearly there is no such thing as "Emotional Intelligence." However, there are SKILLS which may be developed to deal with the emotional states of oneself and others. So, it's fair to say that the fad of "emotional intelligence" is made up of pseudo-science, self-help cliches, fake statistics (to prove that it helps in some way), marketing strategy, and an appeal to politically correct sensibility. In other words, it's basically bullshit, but the kind of thing that makes certain susceptible and weak-minded people feel good.
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Re: TJUSD Board Meeting: August 09, 2018

Postby cactuspete » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:50 am

Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman - Animated Book Summary
Definitely a set of skills. Labeling them as a form of intelligence is very misleading, but comforting to those who are troubled by the realities exposed in The Bell Curve. So, this "emotional intelligence" bullshit is really just a predictable defensive reaction allowing people to be comfortably oblivious to those realities. That said, The Bell Curve was written in the 1990s and this was also popularized during that time. It's strange that both have remained culturally relevant over twenty years later. I think the best explanation is that the realities exposed by The Bell Curve have continued to become more and more undeniable and so those troubled by those realities have become more and more persistent in their denial of those realities and the myth of Emotional Intelligence is one of their favorite safe spaces.
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Re: TJUSD Board Meeting: August 09, 2018

Postby cactuspete » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:04 am

IQ vs Emotional Intelligence - Daniel Goleman Emotional Intelligence Book Summary
This video starts off with a series of outright lies. None of the claims are even remotely true. IQ does correlate with amazing reliability to long-term career success. EQ has almost no predictive value at all. Although leaders do tend to have better than average people skills, that does not really indicate that EQ is a valid psychological construct. As Jordan Peterson has pointed out, EQ does not exist. What we have are various skills related to managing people, understanding oneself, empathizing with others, motivating others, etc. Keep in mind that not all careers require good people skills. In fact, often leaders are the most useless people in an organization. They are usually overpaid and under producing. The real heroes are the research scientists and engineers who get things done. There is no doubt that people with low IQs are almost useless when it comes to innovation and development of useful concepts and tools.
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Re: TJUSD Board Meeting: August 09, 2018

Postby wildrose » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:24 am

:laugh: As a retired teacher I absolutely love this discussion and it gets at the heart of what's wrong with education today

Why are feel-good concepts like Emotional Intelligence so popular among teacher types? The answer is because they are no good at math and science. The typical teacher has great people skills, but is completely dumbfounded by math and science. That's why STEM initiatives typically go nowhere. The Maker Space mentioned in the first post of this thread will predictably degenerate into a glorified arts and crafts room. Although Maker Spaces are supposed to support STEM initiatives, without the personnel to push things in that direction the tendency is to regress to the status quo. Like I said, the typical teacher has almost no aptitude for math and science and so there is no one to actually turn STEM-related ideas into something that actually happens in reality.

Programs focusing on something that can loosely be called Emotional Intelligence make teachers feel comfortable. They understand that sort of thing and can put those kinds of ideas into practice. This perpetuates the FAILURE of schools to adequately address issues relating to math and science. BUT the important thing is it allows teachers to feel that they're doing something that THEY find meaningful. They easily convince themselves that programs focusing on expressing emotion and sharing feelings are good for students and that's the end of the story. It's not that teachers are selfish and focused on themselves so much as they simply lack the ability to do what they are incapable of doing.

And that basically sums up the story of public education in the USA. :roll2:
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Re: TJUSD Board Meeting: August 09, 2018

Postby drdesert » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:06 am

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
NOTE TO EDUCATORS: Just because you change the name of something doesn't mean it's something different. You might be fooling yourselves, but you're not fooling the rest of us.

We have seen so many meaningless iterations of the same ole get in touch with your emotions garbage since the 1960s that it's getting ridiculous. It seems like the hippies from the 1960s are running the show or something. What we need is math and science, but I suspect that wildrose is very accurate in what she says about what's holding back progress!

I'm getting sick and tired of the same dog and pony show over and over and over ad nauseam!
:curse:
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Re: TJUSD Board Meeting: August 09, 2018

Postby mrgreen » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:09 pm

cactuspete wrote:In fact, often leaders are the most useless people in an organization. They are usually overpaid and under producing.

You got that right. Most people in leadership positions are basically useless. They keep the right people happy and that's about all they're good for. Emotional Intelligence? What a crock of shit!!!
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Re: TJUSD Board Meeting: August 09, 2018

Postby MojaveMike » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:58 pm

mrgreen wrote:
cactuspete wrote:In fact, often leaders are the most useless people in an organization. They are usually overpaid and under producing.

You got that right. Most people in leadership positions are basically useless. They keep the right people happy and that's about all they're good for. Emotional Intelligence? What a crock of shit!!!

My experience is that people in leadership roles who have great people skills are often ineffective. What is needed are people who can keep track of all the things that need to get done. It's about organization and not allowing anything to fall through the cracks. People with really good people skills are usually lazy and flatter their way through life. Real intelligence is much more important than people skills. It's not even close.
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Re: TJUSD Board Meeting: August 09, 2018

Postby shadylady » Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:47 am

People skills are often used to smooth over a problem and sweep it under the rug rather than actually deal with a problem and solve it. California in particular is run by idiots who don't want to actually deal with problems. They empower fake victims while they expect real victims to put up with being victimized. Case in point, people who don't like certain gender pronouns are supported in their quest to force others to use those pronouns, whereas victims of violent crimes at the hands of illegal immigrants are told to shut up and stop complaining. There's no sense of proportionality and responsible people are being told to be more tolerant of irresponsible people while also being forced to pay more for fewer and lower-quality services. It's a bad situation and this focus on emotional "intelligence" in schools is just one of the many symptoms of our dysfunctional society.
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